Discussion:
MRSA - A pretty sad story
(too old to reply)
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-20 15:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous MRSA PVL
is, and why it has now beome absolutely essential for the State Veterinary
Service's Chief Veterinary Officer to make a prompt and frank public
statement.

If they claim it has nothing to do with pigs and PMWS, let's hear it.

http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1084081.mostviewed.midwife_killed_by_superbug.php

Midwife killed by superbug

By Claire Lomax

A Bradford pensioner has revealed how her community midwife daughter died of
a rare and deadly superbug at the centre of a new national scare.

Catherine Chadwick, 47, died only 48 hours after being admitted to Airedale
Hospital, in Steeton, with the mysterious infection which has killed two
people in a new outbreak at a hospital in Stoke.

A post-mortem examination requested by her family has now revealed it was
Panton-Valentine Leukocidin (PVL), a strain of MRSA which attacks white
blood cells leaving patients unable to fight infection.

The cause of Mrs Chadwick's death was disclosed by her mother Vera Ward, 78,
of Ashbourne Oval, Bradford, as the Health Protection Agency (HPA) warned of
an outbreak of PVL at the Stoke hospital - the first known instance in this
country of people being infected by it within a hospital setting.

The HPA said 33-year-old health care worker Maribel Espaba died in September
at the University Hospital of North Staffordshire after being infected with
a strain of PVL-producing MRSA.

An investigation then found that seven other people, including a patient who
also died, had contracted the same strain.

A spokesman for the HPA said: "PVL-producing strains of MRSA have been seen
in the UK before - however, the small numbers of cases reported have usually
been in the community rather than a hospital setting.

"This outbreak is the first time transmission and deaths due to this strain
are known to have occurred in a health care setting in England and Wales."

The PVL strain is unusual because it can affect young and otherwise healthy
people.

Thirteen cases were recorded in the community in 2005 and there have been
five deaths linked to PVL in the UK over the last two years, although these
figures could be higher as reporting of cases is not mandatory.

The infection normally causes pus-producing skin infections, such as
abscesses or boils, but it can trigger more severe invasive infections such
as septic arthritis, blood poisoning or a form of pneumonia, as in the case
of Mrs Chadwick.

Mrs Chadwick, of Regent Road, Skipton, worked as a community midwife in
Airedale, although she had not worked for a week prior to her death.

And only the weekend before she died on April 11 she had led a charity walk
to scale Whernside in the Yorkshire Dales.

Mrs Ward, a retired maths teacher, said doctors at Airedale Hospital did not
require a post-mortem examination to be carried out but Mrs Chadwick's
husband Philip, 48, of Skipton, requested one as he wanted to know what
killed his wife of 25-years.

Mrs Ward said: "I was glad and the consultants said they wanted to know why
they had not been able to save her."

The post-mortem examination revealed the cause of death to be PVL, which had
attacked Mrs Chadwick's lungs, causing pneumonia.

The infection had taken hold so fast it killed her a day after she visited
her GP complaining of feeling unwell.
"We had never heard of it before - we were shocked," said Mrs Ward. "We
don't know how she acquired the infection - that element is still a mystery.

"The coverage I saw on TV said what we already knew, that this thing is
community born.
"A lot of people carry it on their skin without knowing and it does them no
harm but if there is a break in the skin it can get through.

"But Catherine, as far as we knew, did not have anything like that. She was
fit and healthy and at 47 you do not expect to die like that.

"They said on the TV it can produce flu-like symptoms and she did spend some
time in bed during the week, but had got up to look after her family and go
to a party with some friends."

Mrs Ward was shocked to see her daughter's condition when she visited her on
the day of her admission to hospital.

"She was in a single room in Airedale and she looked about 90 - she looked
terrible. She was struggling to talk and the last thing she said was I just
want to get better'."

At 6am the next day Mr Chadwick received a call from the hospital asking him
to come in and his wife died later that afternoon surrounded by her family,
including sons Stuart, 19, and Timothy, 16 and her three sisters Pamela, who
is a GP, Susan, and Elizabeth, who is a sister on the chemotherapy ward at
Bradford Royal Infirmary.

"I am not in anyway criticising any of Catherine's treatment," said Mrs
Ward. "It was top-notch but we hope it does not happen to anyone else.

"It needs everyone in the medical profession to wake up to this thing. If
they suspect someone has this infection they should treat them first without
waiting for the cultures to come through.

"That is the only thing they could do now that it is getting more
prevalent."

John Sutcliffe, corporate affairs manager for Airedale Hospital NHS Trust
said: "On behalf of all of the staff at Airedale NHS Trust, I would like to
offer our sincere sympathies to Catherine's family.

"This was not a hospital-acquired infection, and was in no way connected to
Catherine's work in the Health Service.

"We would like to reassure patients and the public that the Trust has robust
infection control procedures in place to manage the spread of infections.

"PVL is a very rare staphylococcal infection. It is a toxin producing strain
of a staphylococcal infection which carries a high mortality rate.

"There are only a small number of cases reported every year throughout the
UK. Indeed, only two cases have been reported (including this one) at
Airedale General Hospital in the last 18 years.

"In this case an infection was identified and the most appropriate treatment
provided."
Mrs Chadwick's family now face their first Christmas without her.

"She has left a hole nothing can fill," said Mrs Ward. "It is Christmas all
the time where she is - that is the only thing that comforts me but I still
wish she was here to enjoy Christmas with us."
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Jill
2006-12-20 17:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is very
rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks
Housing; Equipment, Books, Videos, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Working Holidays in Scotland
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-20 18:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.

You don't have pigs, you don't know anything about pigs...the children are
dying.

There is no money to be made from people's distress.

Let us wait, with decorum, for the statement from the Chief Veterinary
Officer of the UK.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Post by Jill
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Pure bred utility chickens and ducks
Housing; Equipment, Books, Videos, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Working Holidays in Scotland
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
Malcolm
2006-12-21 17:30:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.
You lie just for the sake of it don't you?

Posts by you since 1st December = 137
Posts by Jill since 1st December = 52

I dare say that the SVS and SEERAD, if you weren't completely beneath
their notice, might be noting that someone who lies so often is rather
unlikely to post anything that's remotely true.

I wonder if Pat is still pretending not to read my posts.....
--
Malcolm
Jim Webster
2006-12-21 18:17:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.
You lie just for the sake of it don't you?
Posts by you since 1st December = 137
Posts by Jill since 1st December = 52
I dare say that the SVS and SEERAD, if you weren't completely beneath
their notice, might be noting that someone who lies so often is rather
unlikely to post anything that's remotely true.
I wonder if Pat is still pretending not to read my posts.....
I couldn't possibly know

Jim Webster
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-21 18:31:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Webster
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.
You lie just for the sake of it don't you?
Posts by you since 1st December = 137
Posts by Jill since 1st December = 52
I dare say that the SVS and SEERAD, if you weren't completely beneath
their notice, might be noting that someone who lies so often is rather
unlikely to post anything that's remotely true.
I wonder if Pat is still pretending not to read my posts.....
I would, but for the fact that Jim keeps repeating them. They chase me
about. How does it feel to be cannon fodder?

Jim prides himself on manipulation. Check his Vance cult writings. That is
what attracts him to a lobbying organisation.

The trouble is that he just is not that good.

It never actually occurs to him that others might be better at exactly the
same thing. He is so busy writing the next one liner, that he does not
actually listen or watch.

He missed a big one. How big will become apparent in due time.

And, no I'm not taking about me either.
Post by Jim Webster
I couldn't possibly know
Exactly.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Post by Jim Webster
Jim Webster
Malcolm
2006-12-21 20:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jim Webster
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.
You lie just for the sake of it don't you?
Posts by you since 1st December = 137
Posts by Jill since 1st December = 52
I dare say that the SVS and SEERAD, if you weren't completely beneath
their notice, might be noting that someone who lies so often is rather
unlikely to post anything that's remotely true.
I wonder if Pat is still pretending not to read my posts.....
I would, but for the fact that Jim keeps repeating them. They chase me
about. How does it feel to be cannon fodder?
How does it feel to be an idiot?
Post by Pat Gardiner
Jim prides himself on manipulation. Check his Vance cult writings. That is
what attracts him to a lobbying organisation.
Your wild and unproven assumptions just get sillier.
Post by Pat Gardiner
The trouble is that he just is not that good.
And then, when you can't actually respond to the points being made, you
resort to libel.
Post by Pat Gardiner
It never actually occurs to him that others might be better at exactly the
same thing. He is so busy writing the next one liner, that he does not
actually listen or watch.
Perhaps if you listened and watched more you wouldn't make such a
complete arse of yourself time and again.
Post by Pat Gardiner
He missed a big one. How big will become apparent in due time.
More pathetic nonsense/
Post by Pat Gardiner
And, no I'm not taking about me either.
Makes a change, I suppose.
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jim Webster
I couldn't possibly know
Exactly.
So why not address the point I made, Pat, which is that you are a serial
liar, in this case with your claim that Jill is answering your every
post?

What do you think, Jim?
--
Malcolm
Geoff
2006-12-21 21:16:26 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 20:01:54 +0000, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.
You lie just for the sake of it don't you?
Posts by you since 1st December = 137
Posts by Jill since 1st December = 52
I dare say that the SVS and SEERAD, if you weren't completely beneath
their notice, might be noting that someone who lies so often is rather
unlikely to post anything that's remotely true.
I wonder if Pat is still pretending not to read my posts.....
I would, but for the fact that Jim keeps repeating them. They chase me
about. How does it feel to be cannon fodder?
How does it feel to be an idiot?
Your the best example, you tell us?
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Jim prides himself on manipulation. Check his Vance cult writings. That is
what attracts him to a lobbying organisation.
Your wild and unproven assumptions just get sillier.
Post by Pat Gardiner
The trouble is that he just is not that good.
And then, when you can't actually respond to the points being made, you
resort to libel.
Something you do constantly, to pretty much all you meet!
Post by Malcolm
It never actually occurs to him that others might be better at exactly the
Post by Pat Gardiner
same thing. He is so busy writing the next one liner, that he does not
actually listen or watch.
Perhaps if you listened and watched more you wouldn't make such a
complete arse of yourself time and again.
LOL the irony!
Jim Webster
2006-12-21 21:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jim Webster
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.
You lie just for the sake of it don't you?
Posts by you since 1st December = 137
Posts by Jill since 1st December = 52
I dare say that the SVS and SEERAD, if you weren't completely beneath
their notice, might be noting that someone who lies so often is rather
unlikely to post anything that's remotely true.
I wonder if Pat is still pretending not to read my posts.....
I would, but for the fact that Jim keeps repeating them. They chase me
about. How does it feel to be cannon fodder?
How does it feel to be an idiot?
Post by Pat Gardiner
Jim prides himself on manipulation. Check his Vance cult writings. That is
what attracts him to a lobbying organisation.
Your wild and unproven assumptions just get sillier.
Post by Pat Gardiner
The trouble is that he just is not that good.
And then, when you can't actually respond to the points being made, you
resort to libel.
Post by Pat Gardiner
It never actually occurs to him that others might be better at exactly the
same thing. He is so busy writing the next one liner, that he does not
actually listen or watch.
Perhaps if you listened and watched more you wouldn't make such a complete
arse of yourself time and again.
Post by Pat Gardiner
He missed a big one. How big will become apparent in due time.
More pathetic nonsense/
Post by Pat Gardiner
And, no I'm not taking about me either.
Makes a change, I suppose.
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jim Webster
I couldn't possibly know
Exactly.
So why not address the point I made, Pat, which is that you are a serial
liar, in this case with your claim that Jill is answering your every post?
What do you think, Jim?
I cannot say too much as pat is now becoming an income stream. Because he
gets his stuff into various online sheets, editors phone me up to find out
what is really happening, so I suppose you could say I have a vested
interest in his continuing.
It is the same when people were posting the links to articles I wrote. The
increased hits impressed editors who respond with more work and increased
rates of remuneration because this was evidence of a popular and much read
and respected writer.
So I suppose I ought to declare an interest at this point.

That being so I have watched pats posts over the last six years. I have
passed them onto media figures in the early days when he asked me. I have
made sure that they knew about his website.

The fact that it is me they ask to write the articles is just one of those
things obviously


Jim Webster
Elaine Jones
2006-12-21 23:03:30 UTC
Permalink
Quoting from message <***@mid.individual.net>
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Jim Webster
Post by Jim Webster
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Jim prides himself on manipulation. Check his Vance cult writings. That is
what attracts him to a lobbying organisation.
Your wild and unproven assumptions just get sillier.
Post by Pat Gardiner
The trouble is that he just is not that good.
And then, when you can't actually respond to the points being made, you
resort to libel.
Post by Pat Gardiner
It never actually occurs to him that others might be better at exactly the
same thing. He is so busy writing the next one liner, that he does not
actually listen or watch.
Perhaps if you listened and watched more you wouldn't make such a complete
arse of yourself time and again.
Post by Pat Gardiner
He missed a big one. How big will become apparent in due time.
More pathetic nonsense/
Post by Pat Gardiner
And, no I'm not taking about me either.
Makes a change, I suppose.
So why not address the point I made, Pat, which is that you are a serial
liar, in this case with your claim that Jill is answering your every post?
What do you think, Jim?
I cannot say too much as pat is now becoming an income stream. Because he
gets his stuff into various online sheets, editors phone me up to find out
what is really happening, so I suppose you could say I have a vested
interest in his continuing.
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
Post by Jim Webster
It is the same when people were posting the links to articles I wrote. The
increased hits impressed editors who respond with more work and increased
rates of remuneration because this was evidence of a popular and much read
and respected writer.
Trolls having the opposite effect from that which they intended?
Post by Jim Webster
So I suppose I ought to declare an interest at this point.
That being so I have watched pats posts over the last six years. I have
passed them onto media figures in the early days when he asked me. I have
made sure that they knew about his website.
The fact that it is me they ask to write the articles is just one of those
things obviously
Obviously - since you're "not that good"!
--
.ElaineJ. Briallen Gifts/Cards catalogue at http://www.briallen.co.uk
.Virtual. Corn Dollies, Cards, Coasters, Mousemats, Kids' Tshirts
StrongArm Jones' Pages at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones
.RISC PC. Corwen, North Wales; Steam Traction;CMMGB&Yukon Volunteers.
Elaine Jones
2006-12-21 23:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Quoting from message <***@cae-coed.zetnet.co.uk>
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Elaine Jones
Post by Elaine Jones
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
seem to have lost an m somewhere.
--
.ElaineJ. Visit Jones' Pages at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones
.Virtual. Corwen, North Wales; Steam Traction, with feature on
Fodens; StrongArm Textures/Backdrops; Spring Graphics
.RISC PC. CMMGB with pics of pre- WW 1 Dawson & Yukon Volunteers.
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-21 23:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Elaine Jones
Post by Elaine Jones
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
seem to have lost an m somewhere.
Don't worry about it.

Some days I lose the whole alphabet. Well, not exactly lose it, just get
attacked by it.

BTW. Why are the Americans so interested in you? I genuinely don't know.

It has always baffled me, but it has something to do with FMD.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Post by Elaine Jones
--
.ElaineJ. Visit Jones' Pages at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones
.Virtual. Corwen, North Wales; Steam Traction, with feature on
Fodens; StrongArm Textures/Backdrops; Spring Graphics
.RISC PC. CMMGB with pics of pre- WW 1 Dawson & Yukon Volunteers.
Elaine Jones
2006-12-22 11:56:12 UTC
Permalink
Quoting from message <***@bt.com>
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Pat Gardiner
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Elaine Jones
Post by Elaine Jones
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
seem to have lost an m somewhere.
Don't worry about it.
Some days I lose the whole alphabet. Well, not exactly lose it, just get
attacked by it.
BTW. Why are the Americans so interested in you?
What evidence do you have that they are?
Post by Pat Gardiner
I genuinely don't know.
Neither do I - I get an occasional email from the US re steam engines.
Post by Pat Gardiner
It has always baffled me, but it has something to do with FMD.
How do you arrive at that conclusion - imagination running riot again?
--
.ElaineJ. Home Pages and FAQ of uk.food+drink.indian can be viewed at
.Virtual. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones/ufdi/index.html
StrongArm Under construction, FAQ, recipes, tips, booklist, links
.RISC PC. Questions and suggestions please, email or to the newsgroup
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-22 12:11:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Pat Gardiner
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Elaine Jones
Post by Elaine Jones
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
seem to have lost an m somewhere.
Don't worry about it.
Some days I lose the whole alphabet. Well, not exactly lose it, just get
attacked by it.
BTW. Why are the Americans so interested in you?
What evidence do you have that they are?
I occasionally get asked about you.
Post by Elaine Jones
Post by Pat Gardiner
I genuinely don't know.
Neither do I - I get an occasional email from the US re steam engines.
Post by Pat Gardiner
It has always baffled me, but it has something to do with FMD.
How do you arrive at that conclusion
The context of the question
Post by Elaine Jones
- imagination running riot again?
As you wish.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Post by Elaine Jones
--
.ElaineJ. Home Pages and FAQ of uk.food+drink.indian can be viewed at
.Virtual. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones/ufdi/index.html
StrongArm Under construction, FAQ, recipes, tips, booklist, links
.RISC PC. Questions and suggestions please, email or to the newsgroup
Elaine Jones
2006-12-22 13:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Quoting from message <EKCdna5-***@bt.com>
posted on 22 Dec 2006 by Pat Gardiner
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Pat Gardiner
Post by Pat Gardiner
BTW. Why are the Americans so interested in you?
What evidence do you have that they are?
I occasionally get asked about you.
Post by Elaine Jones
Post by Pat Gardiner
I genuinely don't know.
Neither do I - I get an occasional email from the US re steam engines.
Post by Pat Gardiner
It has always baffled me, but it has something to do with FMD.
How do you arrive at that conclusion
The context of the question
So Burkie asked and you jumped to conclusions.

Try looking up the other Elaine Joneses in Wales, there's quite a few.
--
.ElaineJ. Home Pages and FAQ of uk.food+drink.indian can be viewed at
.Virtual. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones/ufdi/index.html
StrongArm Under construction, FAQ, recipes, tips, booklist, links
.RISC PC. Questions and suggestions please, email or to the newsgroup
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-22 13:35:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 22 Dec 2006 by Pat Gardiner
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Pat Gardiner
Post by Pat Gardiner
BTW. Why are the Americans so interested in you?
What evidence do you have that they are?
I occasionally get asked about you.
Post by Elaine Jones
Post by Pat Gardiner
I genuinely don't know.
Neither do I - I get an occasional email from the US re steam engines.
Post by Pat Gardiner
It has always baffled me, but it has something to do with FMD.
How do you arrive at that conclusion
The context of the question
So Burkie asked and you jumped to conclusions.
I think I first noticed Burkie on one of the newsgroups round about 2003. I
have never met him. It does not tie up does it?

It should not surprise anyone that US agencies and later Homeland Security
should not be interested in CSF and FMD.
Post by Elaine Jones
Try looking up the other Elaine Joneses in Wales, there's quite a few.
Indeed. That may be the explanation.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Post by Elaine Jones
--
.ElaineJ. Home Pages and FAQ of uk.food+drink.indian can be viewed at
.Virtual. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones/ufdi/index.html
StrongArm Under construction, FAQ, recipes, tips, booklist, links
.RISC PC. Questions and suggestions please, email or to the newsgroup
Jim Webster
2006-12-22 12:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Pat Gardiner
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Elaine Jones
posted on 21 Dec 2006 by Elaine Jones
Post by Elaine Jones
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
seem to have lost an m somewhere.
Don't worry about it.
Some days I lose the whole alphabet. Well, not exactly lose it, just get
attacked by it.
BTW. Why are the Americans so interested in you?
What evidence do you have that they are?
Post by Pat Gardiner
I genuinely don't know.
Neither do I - I get an occasional email from the US re steam engines.
Post by Pat Gardiner
It has always baffled me, but it has something to do with FMD.
11 From: Pat Gardiner - view profile

Date: Wed 16 Aug 2006 14:45

Email: "Pat Gardiner" <***@btinternet.com>

Groups: uk.business.agriculture, rec.pets.cats.health+behav, alt.cats

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No, I said corruption and I meant it. The latest one uncovered is the small

slaughterhouse scam, where the SVS "adapted" the EU regulations to ensure

the employment of their fellow vets when cheaper non-vets were all that was

needed.



I do not think any of the government organisations I have criticised would

dare take any action. They have too much to hide. You can't go suing people

when hiding your own crimes behind crown immunity.





With the greatest respect (genuine!) much of what most people believe of

libel and slander is simply wrong. As one small example, I could not be

guilty of slander, my comments are with one exception, when I called the SVS

a bunch of crooks, I think, on BBC radio and got invited back as a result,

are always in writing - hence potentially libellous - not slanderous.





I say potentially because in almost every case they are not libellous in the

legal sense, and even where they may be a bit sharp, all of the usual

defences to libel apply. Do you know what the defences are? Check.





Also, one thing you learn in business is that irrespective of the letter of

the law, practicality rules. The practical day to day rules of commonsense

will always come into play and mitigate against casual defamation actions.





Charles, there was nothing I could do to make myself popular on

uk.business.agriculture. The politburo decided on an all out gang attack.

You know perfectly well, I was constantly abused and accused of not having

given evidence to a Select Committee. I had - and Malcolm, in fairness, was

the man to confirm it. How he got hold of a copy of the document is of no

consequence.





I took gratuitous abuse for a long time, before defending myself by

retaliating. As you can see, the retaliation was effective.





Now, let's turn to a more interesting point. I have always told all of you

quite bluntly that the Americans were watching. If was no bluff, I knew that

the American security services were fully appraised of what was going on

here in Norfolk from September 2000. People who knew me well from my

previous career, and that I knew were from the US security services, were

reading and reported. You will appreciate that it is a federal offence to

identify them.





Surely by now, the more intelligent readers must know that I have enough

commonsense to be unusually truthful in a sometimes frightening situation.





Why would I lie? The attack on my former business career was ridiculous, and

easily disprovable by reference to Companies House. I ran 17 companies, many

in sensitive fields, had no busters, no bad debts and an impeccable record.

I sold out twice, partly due to ill health, and in both cases solvent

groups.





I actually don't give a bugger whether anyone here believes me or not. The

fact that they organise attacks using deliberate lies rather than simply

ignoring me raises questions about their motives





What I mostly care about is the human health risks caused by covering up

animal epidemics in the UK. It has to stop and I regard it as an absolute

moral imperative to do my best to improve matters. Fate put me at the centre

of events and with the relevant experience to handle the situation. You

don't walk away from something like that.





As you probably realise I was given four months to live back in September

2004 and even after a successful rare operation, the five year survival rate

was only 20 percent. I'm doing rather well, but do you seriously think that

I would bother with all this, if I was not convinced of the truth, justice

and importance of the case.





I partially housebound for much of the time - and that together with the

long term prognosis made litigation ridiculous in both directions. So I have

to take the libels on the chin, but that won't stop me kicking the

perpetrators all over the Usenet.
--
Regards

Pat Gardiner

www.go-self-sufficient.com
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-22 13:29:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Webster
snip<
11 From: Pat Gardiner - view profile
Date: Wed 16 Aug 2006 14:45
Groups: uk.business.agriculture, rec.pets.cats.health+behav, alt.cats
show options
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author
Why Webster reposted that is baffling, as I stand by every point and
recommend anyone interested to read it carefully.

One can only speculate that Mr Webster has suddenly become interested in
holding the SVS to account for their disgraceful behaviour.

The reason is probably very different. He now seems prepared to deliberately
court notoriety for cash up front and hopes by associating himself with me
to secure an attractive income stream.

Perhaps the CLA have finally called him to account and he urgently needs a
replacement source of income?

I will do nothing to encourage him. It is not in his own interests and
certainly not in the interests of his associates.

His supporters really should now consider putting some space between
themselves and somebody quite so unscrupulous.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Jim Webster
2006-12-22 08:37:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elaine Jones
Post by Jim Webster
I cannot say too much as pat is now becoming an income stream. Because he
gets his stuff into various online sheets, editors phone me up to find out
what is really happening, so I suppose you could say I have a vested
interest in his continuing.
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
Post by Jim Webster
It is the same when people were posting the links to articles I wrote. The
increased hits impressed editors who respond with more work and increased
rates of remuneration because this was evidence of a popular and much read
and respected writer.
Trolls having the opposite effect from that which they intended?
a lot of it is inherent in the nature of their posts. If someone wants to
know about pat, then they see the posts where he was going on about
incontinence pads and zimmer frames. People will make their minds up on
that. Also they can look at the evidence presented. Someone who has been
making the same wrong prophecy for six years, (I've lost count of how often
pat has said that I was on the verge of being sacked, publically disgraced,
arrested by the Americans) lack credibility.
But fortunately for me he has managed to transform himself into an income
stream and thus serves some useful purpose
Post by Elaine Jones
Post by Jim Webster
So I suppose I ought to declare an interest at this point.
That being so I have watched pats posts over the last six years. I have
passed them onto media figures in the early days when he asked me. I have
made sure that they knew about his website.
The fact that it is me they ask to write the articles is just one of those
things obviously
Obviously - since you're "not that good"!
given pats writing style that line did amuse me. He obviously doesn't
realise that for a freelance writer you are only as good as your last
published piece, and while they keep publishing you, you're good. When they
stop, you aren't.

Ah well, such is life.

Jim Webster
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-22 10:12:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Webster
Post by Elaine Jones
Post by Jim Webster
I cannot say too much as pat is now becoming an income stream. Because he
gets his stuff into various online sheets, editors phone me up to find out
what is really happening, so I suppose you could say I have a vested
interest in his continuing.
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
Post by Jim Webster
It is the same when people were posting the links to articles I wrote. The
increased hits impressed editors who respond with more work and increased
rates of remuneration because this was evidence of a popular and much read
and respected writer.
Trolls having the opposite effect from that which they intended?
a lot of it is inherent in the nature of their posts. If someone wants to
know about pat, then they see the posts where he was going on about
incontinence pads and zimmer frames. People will make their minds up on
that. Also they can look at the evidence presented. Someone who has been
making the same wrong prophecy for six years, (I've lost count of how
often pat has said that I was on the verge of being sacked, publically
disgraced,
arrested by the Americans) lack credibility.
With a vivid imagination like yours, perhaps your journalistic ambitions
would be better transfered to fiction?
Post by Jim Webster
But fortunately for me he has managed to transform himself into an income
stream and thus serves some useful purpose
Is that why you have attached yourself to me so firmly?

Although I doubt that I'm any form of income, stream or otherwise, it is
rather like being followed about by a rural Santa and a gang of rather
dim-witted gnomes.

The place of honour goes to Stubbsie, for obvious reasons, as Rudolf, an
outriding Highland Reindeer.
Post by Jim Webster
Post by Elaine Jones
Post by Jim Webster
So I suppose I ought to declare an interest at this point.
That being so I have watched pats posts over the last six years. I have
passed them onto media figures in the early days when he asked me. I have
made sure that they knew about his website.
The fact that it is me they ask to write the articles is just one of those
things obviously
Obviously - since you're "not that good"!
given pats writing style that line did amuse me. He obviously doesn't
realise that for a freelance writer you are only as good as your last
published piece, and while they keep publishing you, you're good. When
they stop, you aren't.
Ah well, such is life.
So much for the income stream ;o)
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Post by Jim Webster
Jim Webster
Geoff
2006-12-22 10:36:42 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:37:09 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Post by Jim Webster
Post by Elaine Jones
Post by Jim Webster
I cannot say too much as pat is now becoming an income stream. Because he
gets his stuff into various online sheets, editors phone me up to find out
what is really happening, so I suppose you could say I have a vested
interest in his continuing.
Wonder how Pat will respond to this - he ight ignore it.
Post by Jim Webster
It is the same when people were posting the links to articles I wrote. The
increased hits impressed editors who respond with more work and increased
rates of remuneration because this was evidence of a popular and much read
and respected writer.
Trolls having the opposite effect from that which they intended?
a lot of it is inherent in the nature of their posts. If someone wants to
know about pat, then they see the posts where he was going on about
incontinence pads and zimmer frames. People will make their minds up on
that. Also they can look at the evidence presented. Someone who has been
making the same wrong prophecy for six years, (I've lost count of how often
pat has said that I was on the verge of being sacked, publically disgraced,
arrested by the Americans) lack credibility.
But fortunately for me he has managed to transform himself into an income
stream and thus serves some useful purpose
In which case why does he, I and many, many others get so much up your
nose?

It's a great trait.

You may think you're kidding your village idiot friends, the few who
actually still talk to you. We know you have been forced into a corner
and had your claws trimmed. You have been forced into being a good boy
these days. Lets just say you had an Internet ASBO!

You're a sap, and the more you drink to drown your sorrows, the more
delusional you become!
Steve Firth
2006-12-22 11:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff
You're a sap, and the more you drink to drown your sorrows, the more
delusional you become!
Congratulations, abuse and libel posted from behind an alias. That makes
you look like a real man.

.

^ Pete's testicles (life size)


Anyway shouldn't you be busy harassing some old ladies or shouting insults
through letter boxes? I don't know how you find the time.
Geoff
2006-12-22 11:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Firth
Post by Geoff
You're a sap, and the more you drink to drown your sorrows, the more
delusional you become!
Congratulations, abuse and libel posted from behind an alias. That makes
you look like a real man.
You could always do something about it?
Post by Steve Firth
.
^ Pete's testicles (life size)
Beats having none!
Post by Steve Firth
Anyway shouldn't you be busy harassing some old ladies or shouting insults
through letter boxes?
I leave that to you and your dirty old men friends!
Post by Steve Firth
I don't know how you find the time.
Same way you do, only I have a choice!

You're still a sap!
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-22 16:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff
snip<
In which case why does he, I and many, many others get so much up your
nose?
It's a great trait.
You may think you're kidding your village idiot friends, the few who
actually still talk to you. We know you have been forced into a corner
and had your claws trimmed. You have been forced into being a good boy
these days. Lets just say you had an Internet ASBO!
You're a sap, and the more you drink to drown your sorrows, the more
delusional you become!
Now, now Geoff, do behave. People might get the impression that you are
related to *Pete.*

I do recall that some years ago, Jim told us all that he had not had a drink
for years. He could not afford it, he said.

That was when he was farming, it is true, and before he took to lobbying for
the Country Land and Business Association and was able to take to the
internet all day and enjoy his first foreign holiday.

Even so, we have no evidence that he drinks. You should not tender excuses
for his disreputable behaviour.

It is quite hard on Stubbsie and respectable retired (and unretired)
shipbrokers to suggest that alcohol is responsible for all mankind's ills.

My two veggie nieces drink, I think, well at least they used to!

It was one of their more attractive features.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Pat Gardiner
2006-12-21 23:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Webster
snip<
Post by Malcolm
What do you think, Jim?
I cannot say too much as pat is now becoming an income stream. Because he
gets his stuff into various online sheets, editors phone me up to find out
what is really happening, so I suppose you could say I have a vested
interest in his continuing.
It is the same when people were posting the links to articles I wrote. The
increased hits impressed editors who respond with more work and increased
rates of remuneration because this was evidence of a popular and much read
and respected writer.
Dream on loser.
Post by Jim Webster
So I suppose I ought to declare an interest at this point.
It would be a first if you did.
Post by Jim Webster
That being so I have watched pats posts over the last six years. I have
passed them onto media figures in the early days when he asked me.
I do not recall asking you to do anything of the kind.

I do recall you incorrectly claiming that you were representing me,
presumably as some kind of agent, with the intention of claiming a
commission.

Once I found out I asked you to stop. In fact, I made it clear that you were
holding out and insisted you stop.
Post by Jim Webster
I have made sure that they knew about his website.
I have not asked you to do so and disapprove of you claiming any connection
with my website
Post by Jim Webster
The fact that it is me they ask to write the articles is just one of those
things obviously
I would not take it as a compliment. The odd article in the farming press
are not exactly the pinnacle of a journalist career, especially when your
by-line misrepresented your position with the Country Land and Business
Association.

You would also be lucky if the headline matches the content.

Now, to get down to the nitty gritty. You attempts to horn in and make a few
bob from a national crisis have been adequately exposed.

The piggy press claim - their headline today - Quote - From Hansard: no
MRSA in pigs - Unquote

Not too surprisingly, Hansard does not support that. You do not rely on the
farming press for accuracy. Actually it is a bit dodgy misrepresenting
Hansard

The relevant passage from 18 Dec 2006

Quote
The inclusion of other livestock species, including pigs, in the remit of
this project has been considered by the subgroup but has not been taken
forward due to little evidence of the occurrence of MRSA in other
food-producing animals in the United Kingdom, and due to the fact that
staphylococcus aureus is not generally considered to be a major pathogen in
livestock species other than cattle, where it is a significant cause of
mastitis.
Unquote

So, they don't know.

This is supported as recently as the 2nd October by the Defra page


http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/zoonoses/mrsa.htm

Quote

MRSA in livestock

MRSA has been isolated from dairy cows and chickens outside the UK. There is
no current evidence that food-producing animals form a reservoir of
infection in the UK; in fact the organism has not been detected in farmed
livestock in the UK. No recent surveys have been carried out, however, to
specifically look for the organism.
In view of the isolations from livestock and particularly from cows milk in
other countries, Defra is considering setting up a project to examine
mastitic milk samples for the organism. Proposals have been submitted to
investigate this area and are under consideration following peer review.

Unquote

What they do not say is that MRSA has been found in pigs in Holland and it
has spread to over 100 pig and work workers. All we know is that they have
not done any work

A very strange omission.

The inference of the National Pig Association headline

"From Hansard: no MRSA in pigs "

is unsubstantiated and misrepresents the Mr Bradshaw's statement.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Post by Jim Webster
Jim Webster
Geoff
2006-12-21 18:19:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:30:38 +0000, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.
You lie just for the sake of it don't you?
Posts by you since 1st December = 137
Posts by Jill since 1st December = 52
I dare say that the SVS and SEERAD, if you weren't completely beneath
their notice, might be noting that someone who lies so often is rather
unlikely to post anything that's remotely true.
Is that why you remain unemployable these days? Even the RSPB dumped
you when you started your stalking campaign of Usenet!

34,200 posts for ***@indaal.demon.co.uk Malcolm Ogilvie in last
year. Most of them stalking Angus. If ever there was a case for
therapy, you are it!

Now you have so much time on your hands, maybe you could book yourself
in?
Geoff
2006-12-21 18:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:30:38 +0000, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by Pat Gardiner
Post by Jill
Post by Pat Gardiner
Pat's Note: I think it is important to realise just how dangerous
MRSA PVL is,
Nobody, who has a clue, believes anything different - Fortunately it is
very rare around the world and even more so in this country.
You trying to create your own agenda out of someone else's tragedy is
utterly distasteful
Yes, yes. I'm sure that the State Veterinary Service and Seerad have noted
your obsession with answering my every post.
You lie just for the sake of it don't you?
Posts by you since 1st December = 137
Posts by Jill since 1st December = 52
I dare say that the SVS and SEERAD, if you weren't completely beneath
their notice, might be noting that someone who lies so often is rather
unlikely to post anything that's remotely true.
Is that why you remain unemployable these days? Even the RSPB dumped
you when you started your stalking campaign of Usenet!
year. Most of them stalking Angus. If ever there was a case for
therapy, you are it!
Now you have so much time on your hands, maybe you could book yourself
in?
PS That's 35000 posts, which represents only 1% of his warped agenda.
The other 99% of his posts he is so ashamed of, like any criminal
would be, he sets x-no archive to hide his stalking from the google
archives!

He posts from 5 different ISPs and uses 7 different newsreaders.

You got it bad Ogilvie. No wonder you're on the slag heap..
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